Fugitive Chefs

He never worked a line, but his book sits on chefs' shelves.

Rich Shih started as a mechanical engineer at a space telescope company, taught himself to cook by hanging around chefs' kitchens, and went on to co-write Koji Alchemy and start KojiCon. Today he works in R&D for a brewery and food group in Aichi, Japan. This conversation is about how he built real authority in food without ever standing on the line.

In this conversation we discuss:
- How he taught himself to cook by showing up in professional kitchens
- The moment koji clicked, and why he calls it "a really hopped up seasoning"
- Why he says he's "just an adventurous cook" and not a chef
- Why he wrote a book and built a conference instead of opening a restaurant
- The line between respecting koji and using it as a trend
- Meeting Sandor Katz at a brunch where he didn't know who was hosting
- Helping traditional Japanese fermentation artisans keep their craft alive
- Using local ingredients with koji, like an Italian miso with cannellini beans
- Why the "safe" career path isn't as real as it looks, and how to start asking experts

🎧 Fugitive Chefs explores how culinary expertise creates value across the modern food system.
🌐 Website: https://www.fugitivechefs.com
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/57kmFAUgp6DhgnguexFuDs
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@fugitivechefs
🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fugitive-chefs/id1676930088
📩 Beyond the Pass: https://beyondthepass.substack.com
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/fugitivechefspodcast

Their family built a catering company that served around 80,000 meals a day. After they sold it, Samer and his brother Sami asked what would happen if they filled a kitchen with food founders instead.

KiCo is a co-working kitchen and food founder community in The Hague. This conversation is about the gap between a home kitchen and a co-manufacturer, why chefs are often the missing perspective in food startups, and why big food keeps getting surprised by its own trend reports.

In this conversation we discuss:
🍽️ How Samer's family grew a catering company in the UAE to around 80,000 meals a day, and the question they asked after selling it
🏠 The gap between a home kitchen and a co-manufacturer, and why founders get stuck on the "hamster wheel"
🏗️ Why they chose infrastructure and knowledge, and how a dark kitchen built on virtual concepts pushed them toward founders
🧑‍🍳 How common a chef background is among KiCo founders, and what a chef brings to a food brand
🧪 Sami's pilot event: chefs cooking with ingredient startups' products for retailers, manufacturers and policymakers, and why "Will people eat this?" is the question that matters
💡 Why you never hear of hackathons in food, and the case for bringing in junior chefs
📉 Why big food keeps getting surprised by its own trend reports, and why Sami says focus groups don't work
🛒 Why a startup's power is in building its own following
🔮 What comes next for KiCo, including a surprise planned for early 2027

🌐 KiCo: https://www.kico.kitchen/

🎧 Fugitive Chefs explores how culinary expertise creates value across the modern food system.
🌐 Website: https://www.fugitivechefs.com
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/57kmFAUgp6DhgnguexFuDs
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@fugitivechefs
🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fugitive-chefs/id1676930088
📩 Beyond the Pass: https://beyondthepass.substack.com
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/fugitivechefspodcast

Recorded the week I turned 30, this is a solo check-in — on what's changed since I left consulting work to become a Senior Innovation Chef at Kraft Heinz, and on an idea I keep coming back to: that "paying your dues" might be the most outdated piece of career advice still floating around food.
In this episode, we discuss:
Why working inside a major food company surprised me more than I expected it to
The real cost of skipping steps — and why I don't think waiting your turn means what we're told it means
What changed at Fugitive Chefs this year: the guests, the community turning one, and a line I finally stopped debating with myself
A few names and conversations shaping where the show goes next

🎧 Fugitive Chefs explores how culinary expertise creates value across the modern food system.
🌐 Website: https://www.fugitivechefs.com
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/57kmFAUgp6DhgnguexFuDs
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@fugitivechefs
🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fugitive-chefs/id1676930088
📩 Beyond the Pass: https://beyondthepass.substack.com
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/fugitivechefspodcast

Should you go to culinary school? The president of the Culinary Institute of America says it depends. A head of school says you might not need the next degree. And I never went at all.

Over the last year, I've asked this question to very different people on Fugitive Chefs. This episode puts their answers side by side: two chefs mid-way through the Master's in Gastronomic Sciences at the Basque Culinary Center, the president of the CIA, a head of school in New Zealand, and me, a chef who skipped culinary school entirely.

In this episode we discuss:
- Why the CIA's Michiel Bakker answers "it depends," and when culinary school becomes just an expensive hobby
- Harsh and Hans on the real investment behind a culinary Master's, and what it actually opens up
- The gap between manager-level promises and entry-level reality after a degree
- Adrian Woodhouse (Otago Polytechnic) on imposter syndrome, collecting credentials, and who really owns culinary knowledge
- Why career changers are the group culinary education rarely talks about
- Skipping culinary school: the door I had, and what hiring conversations actually asked me
- The four different questions hiding inside "should I go to culinary school?"

🎧 Fugitive Chefs explores how culinary expertise creates value across the modern food system.
🌐 Website: https://www.fugitivechefs.com
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/57kmFAUgp6DhgnguexFuDs
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@fugitivechefs
🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fugitive-chefs/id1676930088
📩 Beyond the Pass: https://beyondthepass.substack.com
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/fugitivechefspodcast

Most food industry job requirements don't make sense until someone who's actually applying explains why. In this episode I cook pasta with Vincenzo, a Kraft Heinz intern about to finish up and go job hunting, and we get into what the process really looks like right now.
We discuss:
Why AI resume readers are changing what a good CV should look like
Why entry-level food jobs keep asking for years of experience nobody starting out has
How restaurant experience gets overlooked in food R&D hiring
The real difference between interning in a restaurant and interning at a food company
Practical advice if you're interning in food right now
🎧 Fugitive Chefs explores how culinary expertise creates value across the modern food system.
🌐 Website: https://www.fugitivechefs.com
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/57kmFAUgp6DhgnguexFuDs
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@fugitivechefs
🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fugitive-chefs/id1676930088
📩 Beyond the Pass: https://beyondthepass.substack.com
📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/fugitivechefspodcast