Behaviour Speak with Ben Reiman

What can studying perspective taking tell us about relationships, dating violence, and the experiences of neurodivergent people?

In this episode, Ben sits down with Ashley Rodrigues, a graduate student in Western University’s School and Applied Child Psychology program and lab manager with the Living Organisms Learning Lab. Ashley describes how her early experiences seeking mental-health support helped shape her interest in psychology, school-based services, and research with neurodivergent people. 

The conversation centres on Ashley’s research examining perspective taking and dating-violence-related outcomes among post-secondary students with ADHD, autism, and neurotypical participants. She explains emotional perspective taking through a Relational Frame Theory lens and describes how the study moves beyond self-report by using a behavioural perspective-taking task. 

Ashley also walks Ben through the evolving findings from the project and some important cautions around interpreting differences between groups. They discuss social communication, working memory, social desirability, masking, literal interpretation of questions, heterogeneity within autism, and the possibility that measurement itself can influence apparent differences. 

The conversation becomes personal as Ashley discusses being diagnosed with both ADHD and autism at age 22 following earlier explanations centred on anxiety and related concerns. She and Ben explore what lived experience can bring to clinical relationships and research, particularly when people's experiences do not fit conventional expectations of how neurodivergence presents. 

Finally, Ashley shares what happened when she presented this work very early in her graduate career at an Ontario behaviour analysis conference. What began with uncertainty about whether she belonged turned into productive interdisciplinary conversations and a poster award. 

Contact Ashley

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyvrod/

Links

Living Organisms Lab

https://www.livingorganismslearninglab.ca/

For another perspective on autism, relationships, and interpersonal violence, listen to my conversation with Amy Pearson about autistic lived experience, masking, relationships, and her research into intimate partner violence and abuse. 

🎧 The Hidden Cost of Masking: Autism, Identity and Authenticity with Dr. Amy Pearson

Dr. Don Togade came to behaviour analysis through a deeply personal journey, one that began with trying to better understand himself.

Don and Ben explore how that journey now shapes the way he teaches future behaviour analysts, from mindfulness, gratitude, and self-monitoring to cultural humility, feedback, and interdisciplinary collaboration. They also discuss AI, professional regulation, Mindful Seeds, and what Don sees as perhaps the most meaningful outcome of his career: becoming a kinder person.

 

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/mIe-KuWHadQ

Continuing Education Credits (https://www.cbiconsultants.com/shop)

BACB: 1.5 Learning
IBAO:  1.5 ABA Topics
QABA: 1.5 General
CBA/CPD: 1.5 Learning

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LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/behaviourspeak

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@behaviorspeak

 

Links

Mindful Seeds
 

George Brown Polytechnic School of Behavioural Science

Don's LinkedIn Profile
Related Behaviour Speak Episodes
If you’d like to continue exploring themes from this conversation:

Interteaching with Dr. Rocío Rosales: A deep dive into interteaching and the behavioural design of college instruction. 

Humility, Compassion, and Reflection with Dr. Nasiah Cirincione-Ulezi and Dr. Jonathan Tarbox: Extends Don’s discussion of self-reflection, humility, compassion, and kindness in behaviour analysis. 

Behaviour Analysis in the Philippines with Razelle Kaye Castillo, Kristine Gomez & Kathryn Mendoza: Explores behaviour analysis in the Philippines, including culture, ethics, accessibility, and professional community-building.

In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, Ben Reiman sits down with Indigenous educator, consultant, speaker, and entrepreneur Len Pierre. Grounding the discussion in his Coast Salish identity and his roots in Katzie First Nation, Len shares his journey of cultural reclamation, receiving his ancestral name, and learning to navigate both Indigenous and colonial worlds.

Len explores the history and teachings of Katzie territory, the importance of language revitalization, and the role of community in identity, healing, and belonging. He discusses how Indigenous worldviews challenge Western assumptions about individualism, perfectionism, privilege, trauma, and leadership. 

The conversation also examines reconciliation in contemporary Canada, the distinction between reconciliation and conventional DEI initiatives, and why meaningful change must move at the speed of trust rather than the speed of institutions. Len shares lessons from building Len Pierre Consulting, supporting organizations on their reconciliation journeys, and helping people understand that Indigenous peoples are not defined by trauma but by generations of strength, resilience, and wisdom.

Whether you work in education, healthcare, social services, leadership, or want to deepen your understanding of Indigenous perspectives, this episode offers a thought-provoking and hopeful exploration of how relationships, culture, and community can help us all navigate today's challenges.

Learn More About Len Pierre
https://lenpierreconsulting.com
 
Follow Len Pierre 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/len-pierre/
https://www.instagram.com/lenjpierre/
https://www.youtube.com/@lenpierreconsulting
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61575539922006
 
Nut'semot (One Heart, One Mind) - LPC Podcast
https://open.spotify.com/show/58QRdHYguAqUS6wl7oiljk?si=ef9400843e5347da
 
 

If this conversation with Len Pierre resonated with you, we encourage you to explore more Indigenous voices featured on Behaviour Speak. These episodes offer diverse perspectives on reconciliation, Indigenous rights, leadership, disability, community wellness, allyship, and social justice. Together, they provide a deeper understanding of the lived experiences, strengths, knowledge systems, and leadership of Indigenous peoples across Canada. 

Featured Episodes
Dr. Tibetha Kemble
What Are You Willing to Lose? Settler Colonialism and Reconciliation
A thought-provoking conversation examining settler colonialism, power, privilege, and the uncomfortable realities of reconciliation. Dr. Kemble challenges listeners to consider what meaningful reconciliation requires of individuals, organizations, and systems, and why transformational change often demands more than symbolic gestures.

🔗 https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/what-are-you-willing-to-lose-settler-colonialism-and-reconciliation-with-dr-tibetha-kemble/

Katisha Paul
Katisha Paul brings powerful perspectives on Indigenous advocacy, leadership, representation, and community empowerment. This conversation explores the importance of Indigenous leadership in decision-making spaces and highlights pathways toward creating systems that better serve Indigenous communities while honouring Indigenous ways of knowing and being.

🔗 https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/one-heart-one-mind-indigenous-sovereignty-climate-leadership-and-the-future/

Raven Lacerte
Ending Gender-Based Violence One Conversation at a Time
Founder of the Moose Hide Campaign, Raven Lacerte discusses the movement to end gender-based violence and the collective responsibility we all share in creating safer communities. This episode explores allyship, accountability, healing, and how difficult conversations can become catalysts for meaningful change.

🔗 https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/raven-lacerte-ending-gender-based-violence-one-conversation-at-a-time/

Grant Bruno
The Realities of Autism in First Nations Communities in Canada
Grant Bruno shares important insights into the intersection of autism, disability, Indigenous identity, and service access. This conversation explores barriers faced by Indigenous families, the importance of culturally responsive supports, and how disability and Indigenous advocacy can work together toward more equitable systems.

🔗 https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-37-the-realities-of-autism-in-first-nations-communities-in-canada-with-grant-bruno-phd/

Explore the Indigenous Voices Collection
Behaviour Speak has featured many Indigenous guests over the years, including scholars, advocates, practitioners, Elders, activists, and community leaders. To browse the full collection of Indigenous-focused episodes, visit:

🔗 https://www.behaviourspeak.com/category/indigenous-voices

These conversations reflect a wide range of experiences and perspectives, reminding us that Indigenous peoples are not a single story. They are diverse nations, communities, cultures, and knowledge keepers whose voices continue to shape conversations about reconciliation, social justice, health, education, disability, leadership, and belonging

What happens when community, culture, behavioural science, and public health intersect?

In this inspiring conversation, Ben Reiman sits down with sisters Ruaa Hassaballa and Ithar Hassaballa, two behavioural scientists whose journey began in Sudan and evolved into careers dedicated to health equity, systems change, community engagement, and global health.

The sisters share how their upbringing in Sudan, immigration to the United States, and the influence of parents rooted in teaching, anthropology, and service shaped their understanding of humanity, resilience, and collective care. They discuss the values that continue to guide their work, including curiosity, integrity, community, and cultural humility.

The conversation explores how behavioural science extends far beyond individual behaviour change and can be applied to entire communities and systems. Through stories from diabetes prevention, Ebola response efforts, COVID-19 equity initiatives, global health leadership, and maternal health work, Ruaa and Ithar illustrate why trust, relationships, and lived experience are essential ingredients for meaningful change.

Listeners will also discover how community members serve as experts in their own lives, why cultural humility may be more powerful than cultural competence, and what it takes to create conditions where individuals and communities can truly thrive.

This episode is a masterclass in systems thinking, health equity, behavioural science, and the power of listening.

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/0Gc0T_tU6Pw

Follow us!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behaviourspeak/

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/behaviourspeak

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Links

Ithar Hassaballa

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ithar-hassaballa/

https://communityhealth.ku.edu/people/ithar-hassaballa-mph-phd-who-fellow

https://common-ground-advisors.com/

Ruaa Hassaballa

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruaa-hassaballa/

KU Center for Community Health and Development

https://communityhealth.ku.edu/

Dr. Stephen Fawcett

https://communityhealth.ku.edu/people/stephen-b-fawcett-phd

Hzssaballa Omar Hassabala

https://www.interurbanarthouse.org/tangled-roots-exhibition-2020

https://youtu.be/O4mVCfPfVDQ?si=U4t_jdwxH-QrY53y

 

Research Discussed

Phori PM, Fawcett S, Nidjergou NN, Silouakadila C, Hassaballa R, Siku DK. Participatory Monitoring and Evaluation of the COVID-19 Response in the Africa Region. Health Promotion Practice. 2023;24(3):432-443. doi:10.1177/15248399221095524
 

Munodawafa, D., Moeti, M.R., Phori, P.M. et al. Monitoring and Evaluating the Ebola Response Effort in Two Liberian Communities. J Community Health 43, 321–327 (2018). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10900-017-0425-5

Fawcett S, Holt C, Solar-Hormazabal O, et al. Equity Lens Protocol: Reflecting on Harms From the COVID-19 Response and Mitigation Strategies Implemented in a Local Public Health System. Health Promotion Practice. 2024;25(4):526-530. doi:10.1177/15248399231173702
 

Watson-Thompson, J., Hassaballa, R.H., Valentini, S.H. et al. Actively Addressing Systemic Racism Using a Behavioral Community Approach. Behav. Soc. Iss. 31, 297–326 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1007/s42822-022-00101-6

In this conversation, Dr. Amy Pearson shares her personal and professional journey in autism research, discussing her experiences as a late-diagnosed autistic individual and the impact of her lived experience on her research. She explores the challenges of navigating the academic landscape as an autistic researcher, the importance of neurodiversity affirming practices, and the need for a shift from deficit-based models to a more inclusive understanding of autism. The discussion highlights the ethical considerations in autism research and the significance of aligning research with the values of the autistic community. This conversation delves into the perceptions of autistic individuals, particularly focusing on the experiences of non-speaking individuals and the biases that exist within neurotypical perspectives. It explores the complexities of family dynamics, the importance of support for individuals with high needs, and the reflections on ABA tutoring experiences. The discussion also addresses the concept of masking in autism, its implications, and the challenges of navigating social expectations while striving for authenticity. In this conversation, Amy Pearson and Ben Reiman explore the evolving understanding of authenticity, the significance of stimming in autistic identity, and the complexities of relationships within the autistic community. They discuss misconceptions surrounding autistic intimacy, the portrayal of neurodivergent relationships in media, and the critical issue of intimate partner violence faced by autistic individuals. The conversation emphasizes the need for a deeper understanding of autistic experiences and the importance of fostering acceptance and support in relationships. In this conversation, Amy Pearson discusses the complexities of autistic experiences, particularly in relation to interpersonal violence, emotional well-being, and the importance of support systems in research. She highlights the need for awareness of red flags in relationships, the intersection of autism with menopause, and the influence of key figures in autism research. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding and validating autistic experiences while advocating for systemic changes to improve the lives of autistic individuals

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/h9UUG0zr1f4

Follow us!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behaviourspeak/

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/behaviourspeak

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@behaviorspeak

 

Links

Amy Pearson 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-pearson-359b83303/

https://www.durham.ac.uk/staff/amy-pearson/

Links and Resources

Authoring Autism by M. Remi Yergeau 

https://www.dukeupress.edu/authoring-autism

Dr. Pearson's Amazing Colleagues Mentioned

Kieron Rose

https://theautisticadvocate.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kieran-rose-38574b55/

Felicity Sedgewick

https://www.linkedin.com/in/felicity-sedgewick-32a55015b/

Sarah Douglas

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-douglas-9a57951b6/

Nicole Renehan

https://www.durham.ac.uk/staff/nicole-renehan/

Sarah Cassidy

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/psychology/people/sarah.cassidy

Damien Milton

https://www.kent.ac.uk/school-of-psychology/tizard/people/1419/milton-damian

Sarah King

https://www.saraking.online/research

Krysia Waldock

https://www.linkedin.com/in/krysia-waldock/

Liz Pellicano

https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/47716-elizabeth-pellicano

Research Discussed
Pearson A, Rose K, Mitchell A, et al. “It’s Not a Physical Prison but You Can’t Get Out.” How Autistic Adults Make Sense of the Experience of Intimate Violence and Abuse. Autism in Adulthood. 2026;8(3):360-372. doi:10.1089/aut.2024.0145