Human & Holy

A conversation about the gritty, messy experience of faith when the things you want are not a "not yet" but a "no", life as a mother of five adopted children while grieving a permanent infertility diagnosis, why sometimes we need to stop waiting for a miracle, trying again and being told “no” again by God after 20 years of accepting, the impact of life setbacks on marriage and being willing to get support, the spiritual framework that makes Chavie's faith possible, and choosing to live with joy even when life doesn’t go as planned.

Chavie Bruk is the host of Totally Unexpected!, a podcast featuring long-form interviews that uncover the one unexpected moment that shaped her guests’ lives. She is the author of a weekly blog on Substack, a sought-after public speaker, and a passionate advocate for adoption and infertility awareness. She and her husband are the directors of Chabad-Lubavitch of Montana, where they have spent nearly two decades building Jewish life out west and are the parents of five adopted children. She is an avid reader, traveler, fitness and health enthusiast, and endlessly curious about this messy ride we all call life.

Listen to Totally Unexpected! wherever you get your podcasts and read her blog at www.totallyunexpected.blog.

Chavie can be reached on Instagram @chaviebruk or by email at
chaviebruk@gmail.com
To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at info@humanandholy.com
To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.

00:00 Introducing Chavie Bruk
02:52 Chavie introduces herself
04:23 Seasons of family vs. seasons of community service
08:39 Why she lets her community see the harder parts of her life
10:42 Permanent infertility diagnosis
15:33 Choosing to live fully inside the hardest years instead of just surviving them
17:22 The "why me" question — and how it eventually became "how"
20:11 Acceptance isn't linear — re-accepting the same grief at a deeper layer, years later
22:50 Holding grief and gratitude at the same time
23:09 Her unconventional relationship to miracles — the decision she made on her 30th birthday
26:02 When spiritual belief becomes spiritual bypassing — and how to tell the difference
29:12 On waiting: traveling with a child with special needs instead of waiting for "someday"
34:00 Living in the thick of life — why she started her podcast without waiting for it to be easier
35:25 The toll hard circumstances take on a marriage — and the stigma around therapy
40:24 Learning your couple's "trigger dance," and the tools that actually hold a marriage together
51:04Turning a canceled marriage-counseling slot into a standing weekly coffee date
53:16What it actually looks like to grieve a life that didn't turn out how you expected
54:11 The twinge she feels when someone close to her gets pregnant — and giving it room instead of shame
58:56 The story she's never said out loud before: a new fertility possibility reopens after 20 years
1:00:09 Saying no, then yes, then the test — and the result
1:02:20 "Why did You do that?" — wrestling openly with Hashem after the door closed again
1:04:38 What her therapist helped her see: this wasn't a setback, it was another layer of healing
1:07:07 "That's not my story" — choosing what this experience gets to mean
1:11:14 Not every "not yet" is a not-yet — sometimes it's a no, and that's its own form of faith
1:13:33 Faith isn't feeling good when things go well — it's staying okay when they don't
1:14:22 Why she teaches Tanya — the mechanics of the spiritual world as grounding, not platitude
1:17:18 Living in the present moment as the antidote to shame about the past and fear of the future
1:22:36 Real bitachon isn't toxic positivity — Hashem wants your anger too, not just your best behavior
1:24:47 What "messy" actually looks like behind a polished, recorded conversation
1:26:35 Knowing your own constitution — why she's "fire," not Zen, and why that's not a flaw to fix
1:28:03 Rapid fire & outro

I recently opened a box of my middle school journals, and found the question that has followed me for nearly twenty years: could I honestly call myself a chossid of a Rebbe I had never met?

In honor of Gimmel Tammuz, the anniversary of the Lubavitcher Rebbe's passing, I explore some of the questions that have gnawed at me for as long as I can remember: Should my relationship to the Rebbe be defined by longing? Am I fundamentally missing out on a nostalgic, golden age of Chabad if I never met him? What distinct message did the Rebbe have for a generation with a strong emphasis on the self? Is our determination to feel deeply "aligned" with our life choices a flaw, or a gift? Was the Rebbe passing on the baton, and if yes, to who?

Drawing on a community survey and a close reading of V'atah Tetzaveh, this episode explores the generational shift the Rebbe himself outlined, what a relationship shaped by ignition, not loss, might look like, and how the Rebbe encouraged each person to step into their mission, to embrace the specificity of their identities and be the unique, unrepeatable messengers of Hashem the world is waiting for.

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To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at info@humanandholy.com

To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.

Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨

Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.

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TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Finding my middle school journals

01:33 "Do we have the right to call ourselves a Chossid?"

04:00 Should I yearn for the physical presence of a Rebbe I never met?

06:00 Growing up on shlichus in Houston, TX

08:30 The enormous grief of Gimmel Tammuz

10:30 The community survey about the Rebbe

12:00 The message from the Rebbe that changed people's lives

13:15 Would you call yourself a chossid?

14:30 The final piece of the Torah the Rebbe distributed

15:30 Generation of self-sacrifice vs. religious freedom

17:55 Exploring V'atah Tetzaveh

19:30 What is higher than self-sacrifice?

21:36 Why connect to a Tzadik?

24:00 This generation's power

27:00 The specificity of who you are is your mission

30:00 Every person can be a Rebbe

33:00 When the Rebbe passed on the baton

35:58 Am I a follower of the Lubavitcher Rebbe?

37:48 The vision of Moshiach

38:50 Outro

An honest, joyful, and deeply practical conversation about Jewish parenting. We talk about how to genuinely infuse your home with love of Judaism, what to do when you want to teach a value you don't fully keep yourself, the difference between an inherited Judaism and discovered Judaism, how to see every child as an individual, and what to do when your child doesn't fit the school system. We explore confidence-building for kids who struggle academically or socially, the balance between school and home, and why the home is more powerful than we give it credit for. We also talk about technology and eye contact, parenting without controlling, and how to stay open to who your child is actually becoming.

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Mrs. Elisheva Segelman is a respected educator, mentor, and community leader whose warmth, wisdom, and dedication have impacted students, families, and community members across a wide range of settings. She currently serves as the Program Director at Yavneh Hebrew Academy in Los Angeles and as the Mashgicha Ruchanit for the middle school girls, where she is known for her ability to inspire meaningful personal growth, cultivate strong relationships, and help students develop a deep connection to Torah and Jewish values.
Mrs. Segelman also serves as the Rebbetzin of the Young Israel of Hancock Park, where she plays an active role in supporting and enriching the spiritual life of the community. A highly sought-after kallah teacher, she has guided countless brides with sensitivity, wisdom, and genuine care. During the summer months, she serves as the Director of Orah Day Camp in Far Rockaway, New York, where she oversees a thriving camp program and mentors both campers and staff.
Together with her husband, Rabbi Elan Segelman, Mrs. Segelman has served Jewish communities in both New York and Los Angeles. Rabbi and Mrs. Segelman are the proud parents of six children. Contact her at segelmanelisheva@gmail.com

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To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at info@humanandholy.com

To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.

Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨
Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Host's Intro
1:44 Introducing Elisheva Segelman
4:22 Parenting with the long view — seeing your child as a future adult
6:58 Transparency and authenticity at home
9:19 What if you hate Pesach? Finding the Jewish joy you actually feel
13:23 Is it hypocrisy? Teaching a value you don't fully keep yourself
17:39 The Finding Nemo story: what we expose children to leaves a mark
21:00 The power of your home: what you fill it with is yours to choose
23:18 Family pride and identity as a vessel for Judaism
27:11 Inherited Judaism vs. discovered Judaism
30:17 Seeing past your child's grades and struggles
32:36 The teacher who changed everything
35:10 "Just because you failed a class doesn't mean you're a failure as a human"
38:42 Choosing the right school for your specific child
45:14 "You are fingerprinting the world with the next generation of humans"
52:37 School vs. home — where does the real education happen?
57:13 Social struggles — what every child needs to know
59:32 Eye contact, technology, and what our children are actually asking for
1:02:56 Staying open to who your child becomes
1:05:31 Three practical things to infuse your home with Judaism
1:10:52 It's never too late to change course
1:12:32 Building your support system as a parent
1:15:01 Soul to soul message
1:16:00 The "feel good folder" and surrounding yourself with the right people

The Torah opens up with failure after failure, we have laws of repair (teshuvah) baked into our Judaism, and yet many who live a value-driven life live in enormous fear of failing. Why are we harder on ourselves than G-d is?

Today, we talk about the Jewish perspective on failure, along with Karen's own experiences. How do you hold your mistakes seriously without becoming them? Does forgiving yourself mean letting yourself off the hook?

We get into the Rambam's laws of teshuva, Rav Soloveitchik's framework of fate versus destiny, and a seminary interview answer that always made Karen uncomfortable.

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With more than 25 years of dedicated experience in Jewish education, Karen Hochhauser brings a deep passion for learning and leadership to her role as Co-Director of the Miriam Glaubach Center. In this senior leadership position she helps guide the Center’s mission of supporting, educating and certifying Yoatzot Halacha—women trained as halachic advisors—and of strengthening communities across North America and beyond. Prior to this appointment, Karen spent 17 years at Tiferet, a thriving seminary in Ramat Beit Shemesh, both as a teacher and an administrator. During that time she developed expertise in mentoring young adults, designing and implementing enriching programs, and cultivating vibrant educational communities.She holds a B.A. in English Literature and an M.A. in Jewish Education from Yeshiva University. Karen lives in Beit Shemesh with her husband. Dr. Carl Hochhauser, and their five children. Find her on instagram @torahwithmymother. Karen can be reached at Karen@afnishmat.org

To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at info@humanandholy.com

To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.

Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨

Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.

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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 — We are much harder on ourselves than G-d is
1:16 — Why the Torah begins with a series of human catastrophes
2:46 — "Failure is almost a four-letter word in my house"
5:04 — Adam, Kayin, Noach: what the Torah's biggest stumbles have in common
8:55 — Failure is inevitable. So why did Hashem design it that way?
9:01 — The Rambam's radical idea: return is always possible
10:53 — Asking for forgiveness vs. granting it, which is actually harder?
11:18 — The mirror exercise: what it really means to forgive yourself
12:38 — The seminary interview answer Karen couldn't stand
13:51 — The difference between shame that destroys and accountability that heals
15:26 — Chapter one of Tanya: why calling yourself a rasha is dangerous
17:32 — Rav Soloveitchik's fate vs. destiny
21:10 — From "why is this happening to me" to "what am I going to do with this"
22:01 — Can failure be fate?
23:59 — The missed train on the way to a lecture about failure
25:22 — "You don't have to do it alone"
26:22 — Was your worst mistake destined?
28:41 — The responsibility to respond
44:23 — Why letting your kids fail at small things is an act of love
45:59 — When the suffering isn't your fault at all
46:00 — The rabbi of the Warsaw Ghetto, what he wrote in his final year
48:50 — "G-d is right next to us, crying"
50:50 — What it means to not be alone in your pain
52:37 — "Hashem believes in you. So you need to believe in yourself."

Does the Torah belong to every woman?

This week, I host a roundtable with two women who've built their lives around Torah: Annie Nagel, who left a thriving law career for the classroom and a PhD in Tanakh, and Hadassah Shemtov, founder of Batsheva Learning Center.

We trace the halachic sources on women's Torah study, where the historic hesitation came from, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe's radical reframe: that women's learning isn't damage control, but the direction history was always moving towards.

We also talk about the practical experience of Torah study for women: How do you keep Torah alive when you're working eighty hours a week with three babies? What does learning look like in a season when deep scholarship simply isn't possible? And what would it take for the next generation of girls to believe, without question, that no Jewish book on the shelf is off-limits to them?

EPISODE SPONSOR: This week's episode was sponsored by a woman who wants to empower other women to learn and take ownership of their birthright within Torah.

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Hadassah Shemtov is the founding director of Batsheva Learning Center, an organization that offers text-based Torah learning opportunities for women. She runs a chavrusa-based track at Ohel Chana High School and is the junior Rebbetzin at Young Israel of Los Angeles.

Annie Nagel is a PhD candidate at the Bernard Revel Graduate School of Jewish Studies and teaches Chumash at YULA Girls High School. She holds a JD from UCLA School of Law and practiced real estate law in Los Angeles.

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To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at info@humanandholy.com
To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.
Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨
Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 "The Torah belongs to every woman" — who this episode is for
02:19 Annie's story: from law to a classroom and a PhD in Tanakh
04:42 Hadassah's story: the year in Israel that set her trajectory
07:32 "I'm not making the time I want to for my own learning"
09:26 What the pivot cost Annie: trade-offs and peers making partner
13:55 Framing the sources: were we all really at Sinai?
16:07 The halacha, plainly: are women obligated in Torah study?
21:33 Why the hesitation was about an era, not about women's minds
22:03 Moshe waits a day: Hashem holds back the Shechinah until every woman is there
24:14 Do women feel the Torah is theirs?
28:03 How Annie kept Torah alive when life was consuming
33:08 The Lubavitcher Rebbe's reframe: not a concession to the times, but the trajectory toward Moshiach
38:19 The common language of the house is Torah
42:54 The "living Torah" — when your whole life is already an offering
47:00 "Listen to what stirs your neshama" — Torah study without pressure or guilt
50:01 Why reading it yourself is irreplaceable
53:35 What would it take for the next generation to know the Torah is theirs?
54:08 Ending the split between text and hashkafa
58:00 "No sefer on the shelf is off-limits to you"
01:00:13 Rapid fire: one text to start with, the woman who lost her practice, where to begin from zero
01:06:18 One message, soul to soul
01:07:00 Closing