Human & Holy

Today, I sit down with my friend, Zisi Zirkind for an unscripted conversation about burnout, motherhood, faith, friendship, and the holy delusion of believing your soul is needed in this world.

This isn't an interview; it's a conversation between two close friends. We talk about why it's not always doing less that restores our energy, the undervaluing of women's work and how we each experience meaning in our homes, why faith doesn't have to be rigid to be strong, how we hold paradox in every identity, and how friendship can help us each remember who we are.

Zisi Zirkind is the Rebbetzin of Yeshiva Center in Melbourne, teaches Chassidus through her weekly women’s Torah classes, teaches guided research classes at Ohel Chana Seminary, and is the host of the podcast Standing Between Earth and Sky. Find her podcast here: https://open.spotify.com/show/0EOKqR8gwDDnEEvq7W02z3?si=0c228c7fbde34a5f Contact her at [email protected].
* * * * * * *

To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at [email protected]

To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.

Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨

Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.

* * * * * * *
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Host's Intro: A Conversation Between Friends
00:02:25 Welcome Zisi Zirkind
00:02:50 Springboarding ideas as a way of bridging the human and holy
00:04:01 How much do I trust myself?
00:04:53 When you're taking a leap
00:05:19 A friend who can see you clearly
00:06:14 Sustained creative devotion is supported by a witness
00:08:14 Why sharing an idea forces it to become real
00:10:10 Is this my animal soul or my divine soul?
00:11:41 Delusion of separateness vs. delusion of holiness
00:12:54 Does what I do matter?
00:14:28 Burnout happens when you're not lit up by what you're doing
00:14:41 What will actually energize you?
00:17:06 Busy but not doing the right things
00:17:36 The Rebbe's "add another one" — what was he actually saying?
00:18:27 Showing up before the energy comes
00:20:27 The seductive permission to wallow
00:21:50 "I had to make a choice that I'm going to love my life again"
00:22:08 Hosting vs. being hosted — what really makes a place yours
00:24:08 Dissolution of self prepares you to rise
00:24:50 When to add, and when you need more support
00:25:42 Delegating what depletes you -- "I'm sick of cleaning"
00:27:10 Excellence and pride in the work nobody sees
00:27:55 Bringing the same creativity to home life
00:28:35 Why the years that look like pause are often the years that change you
00:31:51 Bringing your full self into your home
00:32:29 Letting yourself enjoy what you didn't think was "you" — dropping the identity attachment
00:33:43 Paradox: when opposing realities exist at once
00:35:17 Teaching style: opening to the text vs. filing it into systems
00:38:05 Tanya's permission for multiple parts of self to coexist
00:38:08 Trusting that Torah's truth can hold your questions
00:38:39 After the Bondi terror attack: "Faith doesn't have to be rigid to be strong"
00:41:51 Faith from intuition, not intellect
00:42:35 Why paradox can only be experienced
00:43:02 Faith as identity: "I'm here. This is who I am."
00:44:34 The ego in Torah study, and what it costs us
00:45:50 The never-ending process
00:47:38 Host's Outro

A conversation with Chana Kalmenson: shlucha of Chabad of Belgravia in London, poet, and teacher of Jewish mysticism, on the Sefirot of the Omer.
Chana walks through each of the seven emotional Sefirot: Chesed, Gevurah, Tiferet, Netzach, Hod, Yesod, and Malchut. What each one is, how they relate to each other, and how they show up in everyday emotional life. The episode also covers how the months of Nissan, Iyar, and Sivan mirror human development from childhood to maturity, why the inner work of the Omer is what prepares us to receive the Torah at Sinai, and how to approach the counting without falling into perfectionism.
The conversation goes especially deep on three Sefirot: Hod (humility, gratitude, surrender), Tiferet (compassion, holding paradox, the antidote to shame), and Malchut (dignity, agency, authentic expression). Chana shares what she learned about humility from her father-in-law, the Chassidic teaching on the soul's forgetting at birth, and how to step out of comparison with others.
A grounded, accessible introduction to the Sefirot for anyone counting the Omer or wanting to understand the Kabbalistic map of the inner life.

* * * * * * *
To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at [email protected]
To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.
Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨
Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.
* * * * * * *
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Opening reflection: loved into existence, loving me as me
00:31 Tonia's Intro
01:58 Welcome, and Chana on women's circles
05:25 What is Sefirat HaOmer, really? Pesach as emergence, Sinai as the destination
11:38 Nissan, Iyar, Sivan — the child, the teenager, the partner
17:45 Walking through each Sefirah: Chesed, Gevurah, Tiferet, Netzach, Hod, Yesod, Malchut
22:10 Why we use consciousness to look at the inner emotional life
29:17 When perfectionism hijacks the practice (and what to do instead)
33:03 On Hod: humility, gratitude, the quiet power of the left leg
40:33 What Chana learned from her father-in-law about humility
46:10 The trauma of forgetting at birth, and the long work of remembering
50:37 On Tiferet: holding paradox, growing up, why compassion is truth
56:09 Self-compassion as the antidote to shame
1:00:14 On Malchut: dignity, agency, and what emerges when everything inside has a voice
1:09:33 Soul to soul

A live Human & Holy Women's Open Mic Night in Jerusalem, exploring the theme "I Am a Dreamer". A deeply moving evening of poetry, prose and song about dreams fulfilled and dreams shattered, on the dreams laid to rest and the ones held onto with quiet persistence, on the courage to keep dreaming. Listen for an expansive, heart opening hour of soulful art that will dare you to your own dreams.

Thank you to Sara & Joel Halpern for hosting this evening in Jerusalem.

Featured in this episode (in order of appearance):

Mazal Zaikin
Zeesy Gurevitch
Rivka Mazal Tauber
Chanah Rothberg
Hindel Swerdlow
Estee Silberberg
(30:07) Name Missing
(32:28) Name Missing
Ariella Seltzer
Shani Pollack
Miriam Sebbag
Leah Katz
Keren Vardi
Devorah Rutner
Chana Bennett
Tonia Chazanow

* * * * * * *

To join our virtual Tanya class, click here: https://humanandholy.mykajabi.com/tanyaclassTo inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at [email protected]

To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.

Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨

Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.

Join our virtual Tanya class here:

https://humanandholy.mykajabi.com/tanyaclass

Chana Bennet grew up in the religious system, but found herself searching for something from a young age. With nowhere to turn, she turned to God. In this conversation, Chana discusses the concept of devekut (attachment to God), the role of a Tzadik in awakening the soul, and what it actually looks like to live in daily relationship with Hashem.
* * * * * * *

To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at [email protected]

To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.
Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨

Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.

A personal essay about motherhood, the way it awakens my childhood self, and a fleeting, luminous moment where I allowed myself to experience its simplicity.

Sharing this as we enter into an immersive Pesach season, as an invitation to let yourself feel these moments when they come.

Read the essay here: https://open.substack.com/pub/toniachazanow/p/let-it-be-simple?r=c8uie&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

* * * * * * *

To inquire about sponsorship & advertising opportunities, please email us at [email protected]

To support our work, visit humanandholy.com/sponsor.

Find us on Instagram @humanandholy & subscribe to our channel to stay up to date on all our upcoming conversations ✨

Human & Holy podcast is available on all podcast streaming platforms. New episodes every Sunday & Wednesday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.