The Way of Product with Caden Damiano

Most teams aren’t doing the work to make a product launch successful. They’re pontificating in conference rooms. Debating specs. Trying to intellectually arrive at the right answer.The work looks different. The work looks different. Like Steve Jobs said, “There’s just a tremendous amount of craftsmanship in between a great idea and a great product… Designing a product is keeping 5,000 things in your brain and fitting them all together in new and different ways… And it’s that process that is the magic.”It looks like Dan De Mars and his team at Current Backyard are cooking 500 pizzas in two weeks. Prototyping. Testing with real data. Seeing if they can actually deliver before promising anything to the public.Crust thickness. Topping load. Heat curves. App guidance. Mouthfeel. Every variable they could isolate became another run, another data point, another step toward something that felt right—not just something that looked good in a deck.This is what intentional design actually looks like.Dan, head of product at Current Backyard ↗, doesn’t believe in perfection out of the gate. He believes in creating the conditions where a team can learn fast, fail often, and use their collective taste to sort signal from noise.The result? An electric pizza oven that lets a first-timer cook restaurant-quality pizza without the friction, the learning curve, or the open flame.But the insight goes beyond pizza ovens.Great products feel inevitable from the outside because teams did unreasonable amounts of work on the inside. They ran tight feedback loops. They invited more eyes. They treated taste as a filter over hundreds of experiments, not a single flash of genius.Dan also talks about designing for “limited grillers”—urban dwellers constrained by space, fire restrictions, or time—who still want great food without the heroics. It’s a masterclass in finding underserved segments and building for real constraints.If you’ve ever wondered how “it just works” products come together, this conversation is the blueprint.Listen on Apple Podcasts ↗ or Spotify ↗LinksDan De Mars on Linkedin ↗Current Backyard ↗00:00 The Essence of Design01:17 The Journey of a Designer02:17 Philosophy of Design03:25 Unlearning and Relearning09:44 Innovating Outdoor Cooking18:41 Targeting the Modern Cook25:56 Innovative Launches and Product Expansion26:52 Competing with Convenience: The Pizza Oven28:26 Designing for User Experience31:05 Prototyping and Iteration Process34:31 Balancing Functionality and Aesthetics44:29 Final Thoughts and Future Directions This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wayofproduct.com

Enterprises do not have an AI problem; they have an AI governance problem.In my recent conversation with David Trier, VP of product at ModelOp, he described the current state inside large organizations as “the Wild West of AI”—dozens of teams, hundreds of tools, and no shared way to get models safely into production.The reality is that many enterprises are staring at portfolios of 50 to 100 generative AI use cases, but only a handful ever make it into production, often taking six to 18 months to ship.What clicked for me in this episode was David’s analogy: ModelOp is essentially ServiceNow for AI.ServiceNow gave IT leaders a consistent, auditable way to turn messy tickets into reliable service management. ModelOp does the same for AI initiatives: it sits at the enterprise layer, orchestrating 10 to 12 teams and systems—data, security, legal, risk, compliance, infrastructure—so AI projects move through a repeatable playbook instead of one-off review cycles.David walked through a financial-services case where this approach cut time-to-production in half, turning 18‑month science projects into AI services that ship in weeks and generate business value before models degrade.For product leaders and CTOs, the takeaway is simple: if AI is a C‑suite–sized investment, it needs C‑suite–grade governance, not grassroots experimentation scattered across the org.If you are thinking about how to move from proof‑of‑concept chaos to an enterprise AI operating model, this episode is worth your time.Listen on Apple Podcasts ↗ or Spotify ↗Mentions* ModelOp ↗* David Trier ↗ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wayofproduct.com

Show Notes:In the latest episode of the Way of Product Podcast, I had the pleasure of chatting with Brian Donohue, Vice President of Product at Intercom. Brian has been a critical player at Intercom for over 11 years, where he has navigated the company’s growth and transformation, especially in the ever-evolving world of AI integration.Brian shared his insights and experiences in transforming product development at Intercom, focusing on building a Fin AI agent that’s set to redefine customer support.With over two years dedicated solely to AI, Brian discussed the company’s journey from its early machine learning beginnings to embracing large language models.Connect with Brian on LinkedInListen to The Way of Product: Apple Podcasts or SpotifyActionable Takeaways✅ Embrace the uncertainty and potential of AI-driven product innovation.✅ Aligning incentives through outcome-based pricing instead of traditional SaaS models.✅ Balancing traditional product management structures with innovative AI development approaches.Time Stamps04:15 AI Integration in Product Development07:40 Architectural and Product Thinking in AI11:05 Challenges and Innovations in AI Implementation18:00 Continuous Improvement and Reassessment24:50 Inherited Product Design Flaws31:35 Technical Rigor and Product Validation37:10 Evolving Product Management Practices42:15 The Role of AI in Modern Product Development49:20 Outcome-Based Pricing Explained55:00 AI Transformation and R&D Services59:30 Adapting Product Development to Customer Needs66:45 Final Thoughts and Future Outlook70:20 Connecting with Brian Donahue This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wayofproduct.com

In this episode, Vishal Khanna, Head of Product and Technical Go-To-Market at Exa.ai, shares insights on the ambitious mission to reinvent search in the AI-driven world. We talk about the challenges and opportunities in taking on industry giants, the importance of thoughtful application of AI tools, and the value of fundamental problem-solving skills. Vishal also discusses his transition from management consulting to product management, the necessity of technical literacy, and fostering high agency in teams. This conversation explores how integrating AI with sound decision-making can drive impactful innovation in the tech industry.Connect with Vishal01:14 Choosing to Work at Exa01:24 The AI Revolution and Its Impact02:25 Challenges and Opportunities in AI04:30 Managing Expectations with AI05:28 The Role of Product Managers in the AI Era11:23 The Importance of Technical Literacy22:25 Lessons from McKinsey25:52 Adapting to AI in Product Management33:04 The Concept of Agency39:31 Conclusion and Final Thoughts This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wayofproduct.com

This one myth, in my opinion, is the leading cause of burnout: Unless you aim for the highest role at a company, you’ve somehow failed. My next guest on The Way of Product Podcast, Jamie Toyne, challenges that idea. Jamie’s been there and done that. he’s been the CEO, sold the company, and travelled the world. The right fit might be coaching, consulting, or serving as the creative force behind someone else’s vision—like Jony Ive was to Steve Jobs. Following formulas that ignore your true nature leads to burnout and misalignment—success is not measured by title, but by how invigorating the work feels. Enzo Ferrari, James Dyson, Dietrich Mateschitz (Redbull), Jony Ive, didn’t optimize for careers that make a bunch of money, they did work they unlocked their talents, gave them energy to be creative during the hard times, and the structure their creative expression. If you are doing great work that aligns with your unique talents and values, the market will reward you, companies will fight to retain you, and people will want to invest or purchase what you build because you are involved.Turns out, great work is hard to come by, and putting someone who’s energy isn’t aligned with the work doesn’t lead to great work. This episode is for anyone who doesn’t feel like they are doing work that aligns with their wiring. I certainly benefited from the conversation. -CadenListen to The Way of Product: Apple Podcasts or SpotifyIn this episode, Jamie Toyne recounts his personal and professional journey with ADHD—from growing up in Australia, building a successful mergers and acquisitions firm in San Francisco, to starting an ADHD coaching career. Jamie experienced significant burnout, moved to Mexico, and later sold his business.He discusses the challenges and benefits of living with ADHD as a business leader, the importance of doing work that aligns with personal values, and how his coaching program helps people with ADHD perform better and prevent burnout. Jamie explores recent changes in how society understands ADHD, and what these shifts mean for modern workplaces.LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/jamietoyne1Free 1:1 ADHD Coaching Session: www.jamietoyne.com00:30 Journey to San Francisco—and burnout02:15 Life as a Digital Nomad03:48 ADHD Diagnosis and Early Life05:07 Tennis Career and Education08:44 Entrepreneurial Challenges and Burnout13:48 Balancing Ambition and Lifestyle18:46 Reflecting on Business Structure and Superpowers19:11 Dealing with Imposter Syndrome and Financial Decisions20:35 Team Dynamics and Company Culture22:50 Passion for Coaching and Exit Planning26:50 ADHD and Leadership Challenges33:14 Finding Flow and Realigning with Passion This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wayofproduct.com